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Call for CASA to be removed – Improper industry relationships

The following posts on pprune give some imnteresting “food for thought”:

7th Nov 2013, 20:56   #1617 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by Sarcs View Post
We could learn from our counterparts in New Zealand when they undertook to recast their aviation rules in FAR format. They set a goal to complete the project and did so.

Sorry to repost what I have previously said in this thread, but I do think it is timely… My previous post is now well over 2 years old…

Originally Posted by NZScion View Post
There is a simple solution to this entire mess, and would ensure that the political and legislation issues within CASA are dealt with, and would ensure a uniform high standard in aviation between both Australia and New Zealand.

Simply sack everyone at CASA, and expand CAA NZ to have jurisdiction over both countries. Former CASA employees could apply for new Australian positions within the new Trans Tasman CAA, naturally with their previous experience and performance taken into account when selecting the best people for the job. The poorly written, incomplete and confusing regulations in Australia would be superseded by the New Zealand rules, which are IMHO far clearer and more sensible than the mess of Australian CARs, CAOs, and CASRs.

It has been done before (see Food Standards Australia New Zealand), and could quite easily be done again if there were the political will. There would be natural synergies by having one regulatory structure, delivering savings on costs, and providing a more efficient service to the aviation industries and general public of both Australia and New Zealand.

Then again, I’m just a pilot, what would I possibly know about aviation?

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Old 8th Nov 2013, 07:24   #1618 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
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Somewhere, under the haystack.

“I have my copy, which contains important, urgent safety recommendations, but it is stamped ‘under embargo’,” Mr Smith said. “Just why such an important safety document would be embargoed is beyond comprehension to me.”

‘They’ appear to be jolly good at this, or at least someone is. No matter how much money, time and effort goes into a project or inquiry, no matter how lucid or intelligent the submissions, no matter how important or urgent the topic; the burial is never far away. It’s almost as if any inquiry were a dummy given to a querulous child to shut it up while mummy is busy with the gin bottle; anything to stop the noise, even for a while.

Somehow the minister is always convinced (or advised) that it’s all the rumblings of a minority (IOS) and is really neither urgent or important. Once the minister is pacified, comfortable with the degree of top cover the good work gets shuffled away, under the nearest pile. In this manner when questions are asked, ( e.g. coroner or Senate) there is a container delivered, full of boxes, packed with paper; and somewhere, under the haystack a needle.

The 2008 event not only buried the needle but managed to extinguish the work of some very canny minds which would have made. back then, a significant contribution toward taking Australian aviation into the 20th century. It’s time to acknowledge that the majority of submissions were not provided by the Ills of Society. The time, care and effort required to produce a submission reflects the integrity of the advice made by highly competent, qualified people like:-

Baskett; 50 years at the coal face and providing simple, elegant practical solutions to the identical issues raised today. (get well soon mate).

Kimpton; intelligent, sound advice from a legal mind. Qualified opinion, clearly framed, cleverly drafted, sane, competent, practical solutions to the identical issues raised today. See here – All his own work.

McKeown; a balanced, polished submission which just keeps hitting nails on the head. Drafted to be comprehended by all, first class sound, competent (free) legal advice.

There were some 40 odd submissions provided in 2008, all made in good faith with a realistic expectation of change. Someone, somewhere dismissed and disappeared the good work and orchestrated the complete multi handed stropathon we see today, where episodes like Quadrio, Hempell, Pel Air, Canley Vale and important Senate inquiries can, with impunity be ignored or treated with open contempt.

Will the real puppet master stand up, so we may applaud a truly Murky, Machiavellian mind. We loved the glove puppets, but now, your spotlight awaits.


Last edited by Kharon; 9th Nov 2013 at 06:01. Reason: Five by Five NZS

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Old 9th Nov 2013, 09:02   #1619 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2010
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There were 61 submissions provided in 2008, not 40 odd; eight of those were ‘confidential’. I have not as yet had the time to fully research and read the remainder. Some of those read are just a shameless attack on Byron, some are clearly self centred, a couple just plain silly. One of the stars (IMO) is the Agricultural boys submission; articulate, on the money and for mine, fair. You could dust this off and whack it into an inquiry tomorrow and it would be equally, if not more valid now, than the day it published. Samples provided for your general entertainment and amusement.

AAAA-2008 :

CASA does not have aviation problems – it has management problems.

P. Rundle-2008. (1)…(2). Both submissions have validity, they are quite hard to read and patience is required, but patience is rewarded. The phantom of the real Venn report, not the CASA embuggered version raises it’s hoary head once more. I reckon finding a copy of the ‘real’ report is job for PAIN. (Waits for blast from P7.a.k.a. TOM.. ).

Anyway, if you can spare the odd half hour, download the submissions grab a coffee, comfy chair and have a read. Note: some of the submissions will not open on screen, on the black screen you get, look for the download button, that works just fine.

Erratum complete. endit…

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Old 9th Nov 2013, 18:10   #1620 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 387

Kharon the AAAA 2008 submission makes for very interesting reading.

Five years has past and what’s changed?

The same gripes appear in virtually every post concerning CAsA on this website and in almost every publication you pick up, despite what appears to be concerted cyber warfare, whether instigated by CAsA or not, by certain individuals to either, get a thread shutdown, or muddy the water by diverting the discussion off topic.

Some interesting snippets:

“Key Issues Summary”

  • Independent review of CASA’s functions required, drawing heavily on industry input.
  • Current governance arrangements do not appear to be supporting or encouraging transparency, accountability or performance.
  • Industry consultation mechanisms at the technical level may be adequate (for example on regulatory reform working groups), but at the strategic level they are either non-existent or in need of review. Asking industry what their view is and then ignoring it completely is frequently dressed-up as ‘consultation’.
  • CASA needs a central policy making function that binds all staff to a single interpretation that has been developed with industry consultation. This must be a central feature of any attempt to improve CASA’s culture.
  • CASA must develop a systems-based approach to managing interactions with industry that are currently piecemeal and treated as ‘once-offs’.
  • Cost recovery must be based on establishing CASA’s essential functions and priorities (see independent review above), identifying any functions that can be transferred to industry while maintaining safety integrity and removing any requirements that do not deliver a safety outcome that addresses an identified and significant risk.
  • CASA must be directed by Government to pursue aggressively an efficiency and cost-cutting program that reduces the burden on industry.

Seem to have heard much of the same stuff recently

“In many ways, reform has been compromised by current governance and management structures, a lack of drive for urgent change from the top of CASA and an ongoing combative approach from some in CASA towards industry.”

The angry man in charge?

“Trying to work with CASA is akin to prolonged guerrilla warfare, where success goes to the industry person or organization that can build an alliance with competent staff within CASA and assist them to defeat the other retrograde forces at work within CASA to protect turf, retain power, resist change and to stifle industry.”

Sounds a tad like Wodger Wabbit territory

“It is industry that leads and daily implements aviation safety in Australia, not CASA.”


“The effect of much of CASA’s processes is to stop industry from achieving adaptation to a changing market rather than to facilitate it, often as a result of CASA staffs’ personal outlook on aviation.

The FOI of the day routine

“Transparency, accountability and clear performance outcomes are almost unknown concepts within CASA, despite pockets of forward thinking individuals who try and hold CASA to the same standards that are delivered by other public service agencies.”

Hmmm Mr. Truss where are you?

“A poor CASA culture that focuses on personal power at the expense of
aviation safety, sensible regulation and industry development.”

Down the rabbit burrow again

“Management does not seem able to formulate a coherent plan for improvement, nor appears capable of enforcing their will over lower managers, delegates and even field staff in the organisation.”

Which is why Chief pilots are still being overruled when they voice serious safety reservations about operational matters foisted on them by unqualified FOI’s pushing their own personal agenda’s.

“For example, the role of FOIs and AWI’s varies enormously between individuals and offices, apparently without any coordination from a central manager. Similarly, the outlook of senior management is not shared by many others in the organization, and the perspective of central office to the regions appears worlds apart.”

Which is why operators of the same aircraft can all be operating differently based on the preferences and opinions of their handling FOI.

“In many cases to consult or not, to work positively with industry or not, or to abide by normal standards of good policy development or not, are not decisions made at high level after consideration of the strategic environment. They are frequently made at a local level, often with an agenda of frustrating central office and increasing the power of local staff.”

“There has been no research presented by CASA or government in the pursuit of cost recovery that would indicate proper account has been given to how much of an increase in costs the industry and industry clients can bear and the possible impact of increased costs.”

The impact is clients forgoing aviation for other means of transportation

“For example, the current migration of GA pilots out of CASA controlled aviation to aviation managed by Recreational Aviation Australia should be seen as pilots voting with their feet.”

And the migration of foreign commercial students to New Zealand

“The long-term impact of this migration on pilot-shortages and cost-recovery may be substantial. In turn, the impact on the national need for a vibrant and safe aviation industry must not be overlooked.”

Says it all really

Mr. Truss you really need to stand up and be counted.

Last edited by thorn bird; 9th Nov 2013 at 19:45.

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